New IAVA Report Card: McCain = "D"; Obama = "B"

Disabled American Veterans aren't happy with him either (4.00 / 2)

Just one of 14 veterans interviewed by the Sun after his speech said he is a certain McCain voter, and the nonpartisan group's legislative director expressed concerns about McCain's proposed "Veterans' Care Access Card."

They gave McCain a "20" (out of a possible 100) for his voting record, while Obama got an "80".  

"No U.S. soldier ever dies in vain because they're carrying out the missions of their commander in chief. And we honor all the service that they've provided." - Barack Obama

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by: Chris LeJeune @ Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 11:02:13 AM CDT

But, we really do need to look beyond voting records... (4.00 / 1)

This is a great report - no question about it. But, I would caution that, in order to completely understand who in Congress supports the veterans and troops, we must look beyond Congressional voting records. I mean, we need no further proof of that than a cursory comparison of the scores registered for Senators Biden and Lieberman!

There is only ONE member of Congress who has always supported the vets and troops, at every turn and in every way that counts, and who has always had their backs - that member is none other than SENATOR JOSEPH R. BIDEN, JR.

No member of Congress has done more to support the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and he remains the only person - on the planet! - who has developed and honed a comprehensive and viable strategy to promote a political solution in Iraq, based on federalism and Iraq's constitution, that would offer any hope of ending the civil war and of withdrawing US troops without leaving a failed state in their wake.

Quite frankly, Biden's score should have been OFF THE CHART!

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by: Elizabeth Miller @ Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 11:07:38 AM CDT

So, aside from voting records (4.00 / 1)

what other measurement tool would you suggest?  What else could groups like IAVA look to in order to determine where their support is coming from?

"No U.S. soldier ever dies in vain because they're carrying out the missions of their commander in chief. And we honor all the service that they've provided." - Barack Obama

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by: Chris LeJeune @ Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 11:18:39 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Measurement tools don't have to be empirical, do they? (0.00 / 0)

For example, I would want to know which member of Congress has spent his or her time meeting with Iraq's sectarian leaders and with the representatives of the permanent members of the UN Security Council in an effort to develop and hone a comprehensive and viable strategy for a political solution in Iraq - a political solution that would allow for the responsible withdrawal of US forces without leaving a failed state in their wake.

Secondly, I would want to know which member of Congress actually spearheaded and fought tooth and nail to convince his colleagues - on both sides of the aisle - to add billions of dollars to a Defense Authorization bill in order to build the MRAPs that were needed and being requested from the commanders in the field and have them delivered to theatre ASAP!!!

These are the kinds of tools I'm talking about that groups like VoteVets.org and IAVA should be looking at to determine who is supporting the veterans and troops.

Chris, do you think a score of A+ for Joe Lieberman is a good judge of his "support for the troops" - in every way that counts?

I'm just saying that looking a voting records shouldn't be the ONLY way to judge where support for veterans and troops really resides.

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by: Elizabeth Miller @ Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 11:44:02 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I agree, I'm just trying to point out the difficulty (4.00 / 1)

of maintaining such a standard.  Voting records are easy to obtain, and they resonate with voters everywhere.  I don't think I have ever heard a single political debate that did not include the words "my opponent voted for...", or "I have a record of supporting...".  Many politicians make speeches and have photo ops with troops, but when it comes right down to it, they don't put their vote on the line.   Regarding Lieberman, he has been great for troops as far as voting for military and veterans issues.  My only complaint - and it is a huge one - is that America's interests are not the ones he represents.  He has been a constant cheerleader for the occupation of Iraq, and we all know what the "I" after his name really stands for.  But that type of thing is difficult to place a direct measurement on.

"No U.S. soldier ever dies in vain because they're carrying out the missions of their commander in chief. And we honor all the service that they've provided." - Barack Obama

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by: Chris LeJeune @ Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 15:55:33 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Elizabeth Does Have Something There (4.00 / 1)

And Chris you ask the obvious good question.

One would be look at the bills, might have to study them to see what might have turned a yes into a no. Especially for those who Voted yes in higher numbers, as Rieckhoff says, someone voting like McCain is Inexcusable, there just plain wouldn't be something in almost every bill, that someone like McCain couldn't fight to change, to justify so many nays.

Another would be if there are transcripts, there are in the Congressional Record, were objections brought up and not won for a change thus leaving one to vote nay with explanation etc.. In the end the Bills that pass become the Law so what IAVA has done is basically correct, as it opens the window to support for one to look through for further research.

One thing about Biden I, and I'm sure he hasn't forgotten, nor the Parents is an incident he reported and I posted about a while back, this is part of that post:

On CBS News's "Face the Nation" yesterday, Senator Joseph Biden (D-Del.) told Bob Schieffer that the Defense Department policy forbids him from paying his respects to fallen soldiers as their coffins return to the US through the Dover Air Force Base in Delaware. Though no cameras and no press would accompany him, Biden said he had to receive express permission from the Pentagon to join a grieving family that had requested his presence as they met their deceased son who died in a car bomb in Iraq.

"I'm allowed in the military base. I'm not allowed to go to the mortuary," he said.

The CBS Transcript of that show in PDF, they don't have that video clip in their archives.

You can just Bet Joe hasn't forgotten this incident nor the Parents of the Soldier returning in Flag Drapped Coffin!



'Hearts and Minds, "The ultimate victory will depend on the hearts and minds of the people who actually live there." -- President Lyndon Johnson

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by: jimstaro @ Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 11:46:16 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Should Add (0.00 / 0)

I'm an Indie always have been, and I give the incident above as an example of All of the administration policies that were Rubber Stamped by those who place an (R) after their names, not only in Congress but the great majority of their Supporters or rather still think they are Republican!

'Hearts and Minds, "The ultimate victory will depend on the hearts and minds of the people who actually live there." -- President Lyndon Johnson

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by: jimstaro @ Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 11:52:43 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

The votes McCain casts against veterans issues need to be heard about (0.00 / 0)

McCain's consistent voting against bills that matter to veterans is also a vote against the future for all active duty military as well.  Afterall, those that  do not see what McCain is doing now soon will when they eventually leave the service.  McCain is basically screwing over the active duty military in my opinion.  The only difference, many in the military do not realize it yet.  I'm glad the military papers are covering this.

"Armed forces abroad are of little value unless there is prudent counsel at home."

Marcus Tullius Cicero 106 BC-43 BC

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by: mettycat @ Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 13:28:05 PM CDT

By the way (0.00 / 0)

I've been pondering some more about the debate between Palin and Biden.  To add to much of what Elizabeth and Jim stated I saw a big difference between Biden and Palin.  Some as I have heard were complaining about how lacking the moderation appeared to be during the debate.  For me, that lack of moderation showed who was there to do business and who was there to put on a show.  Biden was all business and was ready to debate.  He knew the issues and answered the questions.  Palin seemed to be there simply to entertain the crowd and nothing more.  That really stuck out to me.

Palin's winks and folksy style may be popular with the down home American but will do nothing in face of a seasoned politician like Putin, Merkel, or some other foreign leader.  They will see right through it.  As soon as those doors close and the media PR is over those potentially pissed off leaders will give her an earful about issues that matter to them.  She will break and America will end up getting the shaft.  I did not get that impression from Biden.  He may seem "boring" as some have called him but he knows how to get the job done, he is serious about his potential post, and knows just how dirty international politics can be.  McCain did a great dis-service to the country by choosing Palin as his running mate.

"Armed forces abroad are of little value unless there is prudent counsel at home."

Marcus Tullius Cicero 106 BC-43 BC

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by: mettycat @ Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 13:50:00 PM CDT

You make a good point (0.00 / 0)

Palin's winks and folksy style may be popular with the down home American but will do nothing in face of a seasoned politician like Putin, Merkel, or some other foreign leader.

I had not thought about this until now, but you're right.  A career pol like Tzipi Livni would push Palin around like a chess piece.

"No U.S. soldier ever dies in vain because they're carrying out the missions of their commander in chief. And we honor all the service that they've provided." - Barack Obama

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by: Chris LeJeune @ Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 15:48:17 PM CDT

[ Parent ]